Ed Harrold and Nancy Rothstein explore how breathing belongs in a larger conversation about sleep health, habits, and recovery.
Ed Harrold with Nancy Rothstein. Originally published on YouTube March 17, 2022. Watch the original conversation on YouTube.
Ed Harrold and Nancy Rothstein explore how breathing belongs in a larger conversation about sleep health, habits, and recovery.
00:01.9 Welcome back, friends. Ed Harold, your fearless leader here with you today, and today we have an amazing guest on our Life with Breath Expert series. We have the amazing Nancy Rothstein with us, and I'm so excited to share her wisdom about the power of sleep and how do we turn that on again inside us. Well, here we are again, friends, and I have... Just my heart is so filled today 'cause I get to speak with Nancy. She's a dear colleague of mine, and she cares deeply a- about humanity. And her forte, she is the sleep ambassador, and as we know, humans, we're struggling with sleep.
01:00.2 Every other animal on Earth is sleeping quite well out in the wild, but in our homes, wherever you may be, you can see that it's a bumpy ride between 10:00 and 6:00. So here we are with the amazing Nancy Rothstein. Welcome, Nancy. Uh, I am so... Um, everybody, I'm always excited to speak with Ed, to learn from Ed, to be with Ed. Go be great, which is an interesting... If you ever get an email from Ed, I'm always thinking about how can I go be great, but it's a pleasure. Now, we've only got a little bit of time. These hours go by super fast. Let's give folks a little bit of a, of the background of how you got involved and how you're the sleep ambassador globally to help,
01:50.6 s- help humans get a little better night's sleep. Let me grab something. Well, it all started with a snoring now ex, but we get along fine, spouse. That's great. And I will always thank him for snoring 'cause it sent me on a journey from looking at the ROI from an investment perspective, which was my f- back... You can see I have an MBA after my name, not an MD or a PhD, and it sent me on this trajectory of recognizing that sleep was a risk management issue, both in the corporate world, my background, and for every individual. So he snored, and I wrote this children's book on a piece of construction paper when my youngest, now 31, was in kindergarten.
02:33.9 I love it. And I put it on a piece of construction paper. Fast-forward a number of years, and by the grace of Dr. Michael Gelb, a sleep dentist in New York who was treating my, my ex, he saw this. I told him about it, and he said, oh, one of his patients was very senior at Scholastic. This got published, 400,000-plus copies later. Why? It's not me. It's because sleep is an issue in homes everywhere, and snoring is an issue. What is snoring about? It's about a constricted airway and not breathing properly at night. So I suddenly realized other people can do this investment stuff. I, I'm, I'm gonna deal with sleep.
03:18.8 Mm. And here I am over 15 years later as the sleep ambassador consulting to companies, which Ed and I both have with such grace and, and joy to, to consult- Thank you ... of all places and, and to healthcare organizations and investment banks and manufacturing companies and to the public at large because everybody needs a good night's sleep, and most of us aren't getting it. Mm. We are breathing and sleep, two things you absolutely must do. There's no negotiation. Breathing, you really can't get away with not doing. Sleep, you can get away with it, but you're gonna pay a price. Well, we're gonna dive into that, how the breath and how we breathe during the day plays a huge role in how our autonomic nervous system functions during the day and whether we're able to get into
04:11.3 those deeper delta waves at night. You know, there's, there's a lot of physical science behind what's happening in the brain, what's happening in the body, and inside that physical science, my personal thoughts are that there could be a spiritual disconnect from the research and all the different applications that we have out here for sleep science. Wh- when we think of sleep, most folks don't think of it a- as a spiritual journey because we're unconscious at that time, and when we're unconscious, we appear as a culture not to feel it's w- a worthy investment, as... It's not like I go to the gym, I feel better, I look better in the mirror.
04:53.2 This is something that happens with our eyes closed. We're in a different state of consciousness. I believe it's a spiritual disconnect that's occurring during the nocturnal hours which is really robbing us of our greatness when the sun's out during the day, Nancy. Can you elib- uh, just tell us a little bit about how spirituality might play a role in physical sciences of sleep? So couple things. It's a, a really brilliant question, and it, it, it's f- it's a really significant one 'cause it gets left out. We talk about our body, mind, emotions, and how they relate to sleep, and we have behavioral sleep scientists, and we have neurologists, and we have all this extraordinary
05:33.7 silence, science telling us what happens when we sleep. Mm-hmm. Telling us that we have what's called a glymphatic system where our brain cleanses itself during deep sleep, and that if you don't get enough sleep, over time your brain becomes like a dirty kitchen. Enter premature dimension, those kinds of things. But when you say there's a spiritual disconnect, I really feel that, and the reason is because when you go back in history, philosophies- Religion, and I don't, it, it's spirituality. There was a understanding of sleep that something else was going on. And in our culture, in Western culture, 'cause we can't put labels on it and say, "Science tells us this." But, you know, Descartes called the pineal
06:23.4 gland from which melatonin comes the seat of the soul. Why? By the way, I think I, I mentioned to you and to, to Wendy that, his wife, that I'm actually working on a book on the spirituality of sleep. I've lectured- Yes ... I've spoken about it, and, and it's, to me it's, it's, I'm just pretty passionate about it because there's this dimension of sleep that we haven't touched upon. Most of us surrender to slumber, if we surrender to slumber and are not fighting it. And, and what's happening? We- what's happening to your soul? What's happening that, that science can't identify? I, I actually believe that a, a very sleep defic- deficient society, part of, that's part of our angst, that's part of depression, that's part of...
07:13.1 Because we're not having that body, mind, and spirit balance. Mm. And if you can't breathe properly, if you have untreated sleep apnea, or you have a deviated septum and you're not breathing properly- Mm ... you're mouth breathing during the night, not only are you not getting the restorative sleep you need, but who knows what it's doing to your, your soul's ability to get restored during the night. So it all boils down to, in the end of the day, pun intended I guess, having good sleep habit. Understanding that if you're not breathing properly, what do you need to do to optimize your sleep to change that?
07:55.2 Well said. Well said. You know, I think we can survive, you know, with limited sleep, but we're never gonna thrive. The brain won't be curious during the day to allow new greatness to come into our mind's eye to achieve our goals, and it, it seems like we get weaker and weaker and weaker psychologically. Uh, emotionally, uh, we can become thin-skinned. We begin to crave things, uh, outside of us that might be because, becau- uh, causing de- de- deb- debilitation to the, uh, the mind-body connection. Well- How can we get back into that rhythm that all the other animals on Earth seem to be doing well with?
08:39.7 We are the only mammal that willingly deprives ourselves of sleep. Why do we do that? We didn't used to do that. In my estimation, here's the, here's the, here's the crux of it. Our biology hasn't changed- Mm-hmm ... and it's not going to change for eons. What's changed is our behaviors, and this beautiful device here, and the computer through which we have the opportunity to talk to each other- Mm ... speak to wonderful people listening, and you chose to be here, so you're interested in learning about, more about your sleep and how it connects to your breathing. But our biology hasn't changed, our behaviors have.
09:19.0 And we're inflicting our behaviors on our biology, and it's creating mega havoc. And, and yes, it's creating havoc, cardiovascular disease, hypertension, depression, but also it's gnawing on our souls. It's gnawing at the rejuvenation of our spirit. And it's just... But, but it's about, it's about making a choice, making a decision that you're going to take the steps that honor you, your body- Mm-hmm ... mind, emotions and spirit. And if anything has told us in the last two years that, you know, that self-care is so important, for lack of a better term, it is. And you have to breathe 24/7, and you have to sleep. Breathing is, is really non-negotiable.
10:10.9 Sleep isn't even negotiable, but it's negotiable. But you have to make the choice that you're going to take the steps to be Go Be Great, to be the best you, and it requires... By the way, sleep isn't rocket science doing it. Yes, there's rocket science in how it all works- Mm-hmm ... and things that we don't know, but doing it isn't so complicated. Yes, if you have an undiagnosed, untreated sleep disorder, and you need treatment, but it's also something that you can empower yourself, because here's the other deal, nobody can sleep for you but you. Mm-hmm. Great. Well said. You can't outsource your sleep to somebody, and you can't outsource your breathing to somebody.
10:54.3 So you've gotta find out, and it... Look, I don't know if you're 15, 20, 30, 80, and maybe you never had a course. You go, and a- about a third of your life is spent sleeping, you know so little about it. It, it, it merits attention. Just as your breath- I just wrote an article on nasal versus mouth breathing, and it... And Ed and I wrote an article together on Thrive Global during the pandemic about it. Most people, when I ask an audience, Ed, "How many of you..." It was recent, my first, like, live thing with, like, 70 people, and I said to the audience, "Okay,
11:29.2 who knows if they're a mouth or a nasal breather?" Like, maybe 10 people raised their hands, because people just, they didn't think about it. But because of our facial structure and the way we eat and what we eat and all these things, it's become a big problem. So I don't know if I rambled or answered your question, but this whole spiritual side, you still have to- Well, it seems like there's, like, a perfect storm that is brewing right now for humanity, and we're at a breaking point of where we need to refine our awareness during our daytime hours. Could you explain a little bit in layman's terms about this circadian rhythm that I hear so much about?
12:17.0 Yes. And will you remind me to talk, um, to also mention in addition to the circadian clock... Well, I, I have a note about it. I won't forget, so I don't wanna d- bypass that. But circadian clock, it's your body clock. You are hardwired to the 24-hour rotation of the Earth. So where you have a sleep-wake cycle, and that sleep-wake cycle elicits all kinds of chemicals in your physiology- Mm-hmm ... come out at certain times. Melatonin is not, like, the hormone that makes you sleep. It regulates your dark-light cycle. You don't want melatonin coming out at 11:00 in the morning. You want it coming out as it gets dark out at night.
13:00.9 And by the way, for those, I'm not an MD, so I don't prescribe anything. But a lot of people take melatonin so that they can go to sleep. But guess what? It starts coming out when it gets dark. It's not like you take it and you lay down and go to sleep. And the question is, you produce melatonin through your pineal gland, the smallest organ in the body. Are you on your TV and phone and doing all kinds of bright lights, fluorescent lights in your house that's impeding your melatonin from, the big word here, naturally coming out? Yeah. So the question is, what do you really need to help you?
13:36.3 But your body clock is, is very adept. But what happened is we started to blur the lines between day and night. Thank you, Thomas Edison, et cetera. Steve Jobs, Bill G- thank you, everybody, for giving us all these things that we're playing with that's keeping us from respecting our body clocks. And so when you're, you know, when you're... If you're a shift worker, you're already in a position that, you know, your body clock is being strained to do things it wasn't designed to do. So it's really important to honor the light, dark, the sleep-wake cycle. And we all know what happens. It just happened a few days ago with the change to daylight saving time.
14:23.7 But it looks like in the US we're, that may be, um, gone, which is sort of shocking that it could happen so soon with, for whatever reasons. But the point is, when you start to mess around with your body clock, jet lag. What is jet lag? It means your physiology, your brain, your, your body clock is lagging with a time change that you need to assimilate to. And I've done a lot on travel and jet lag and how you moderate that and how you prepare in advance for it. Because you can't just say, "Okay, I go to bed at 1:00 in the morning. I can't do...
14:58.9 I'm starting to go to bed at 11:00." You're gonna have to ease into it, because your body clock's gonna need to adjust. Was that layman's terms? Was that helpful? Well, I think that's beautiful, the description you gave about how the melatonin arises, uh, with the night- And keeps us in rhythm during the day, and this is part of this circadian rhythm, which is one of the hardwired systems. This is not software, this is hard drive. It came with you when you came into your body. And now we have this other rhythm called the ultradian rhythm, which is the nasal cycle. And how... Can you explain a little bit about how the, the nasal cycle, the ultradian rhythms, and the serotonin secretions merge with...
15:44.0 The, the serotonin is, like, the prerequisite for the melatonin for the pineal gland. Right. And the breathing cycle that we go through during the day, this ultradian rhythm, is hardwired into this circadian rhythm. Right. Well, Ed, you are so much more adept at explaining that than I am, especially the ultradian rhythm. But the point is, once again, when we inflict unnatural decisions, unnatural behaviors on that rhythm, or our breathing is constricted, we have, um, some construct- constriction, whether it's congestion, a deviated septum, we're a mouth breather, you're already playing havoc with the system as it was designed to operate. And, and I love to say, and I, and I want you to elaborate on that because I didn't do a great job, but a good night's sleep begins when
16:40.9 you wake up. Ha. And a good, a good day begins when you go to sleep. And what happened is, I have a, a slide that I use where I show a person and it, it's blurry in the clock. And what happens is you s- it's tw- life is a 24/7 venture. So if your ultradian rhythm during the day is in, is not operating functionally because you're a mouth breather or because you're, you're stagnant all day sitting at a desk, you don't move much, when you go to sleep at night, it will impact that. And that, oh, that's what I don't wanna miss when we're finished with this about, just mention about processing anxiety during the day and its impact on your sleep, but when you're breathing
17:31.1 as well. So elaborate on that if you want. So how does somebody know if their ultradian rhythm is off? What's the telltale sign? Well, I think the first thing folks have to realize is that the nose is for breathing and the mouth is for eating. The mouth can no more easily breathe than the nose can eat. When we, we engage the mouth when we breathe, we engage a secondary breathing set of muscles, which are in the upper collarbone area, the upper chest area, the upper back area. We know that the top sleeve of the lungs are imbued with sympathetic nerve endings, which are designed to, for fight or flight or freeze modalities.
18:09.4 It has nothing to do with rest and digest and parasympathetic activity. And moving at a pace of the mind where you are merging with your thoughts, you're not playing catch up to your thoughts, and you're not bouncing off the walls reacting based on who you were 20 years ago. You're completely present with, uh, your skill sets, and you allow the new evol- of your personal awareness to evolve. When we, when we speak simply of, let's just start with the basics. Belly breathing. You're engaging your primary breathing muscles. You're engaging the muscles around the lower ribcage. You're bringing air into the lower lobes of the lungs, which are imbued with parasympathetic, oxygen-rich, hemoglobin-rich nerve endings, which allow us to burn fat.
18:57.2 As we move through the day, we reduce high levels of inflammatory markers where toxicity rests, and we add a- alkalinity and oxygenation to the gut, to our blood, and it makes it easier on the heart, which makes it easier on our blood pressure. And we can seamlessly go from the two magical points of the day that have somehow left human consciousness. Sunrise, the most beautiful part of the day, and then sunset, where we let it go and we make a transition. These two bridges. How many humans honor sunrise and the opportunity to be in a body to do what you want to do? And then sunset, the opportunity to turn off what has just taken place and engage another type of psychological and mental
19:48.9 activity. So, you know, the breathing and sleep, it's a marriage made in heaven. Well, I, I have a note here for three of our different, um... three different techniques to discuss for that. But I do wanna mention, so you could feel, everybody, the sympathetic nervous system is fight or flight. The parasympathetic nervous system is more calming, centering part of you. And one of the biggest problems that people have had, and, and I've lectured to thousands of people through the pandemic, and I started to note that people were taking their anxiety with them to bed. It might have been even if they were working from home all day, or their kids were being home for school and all of that, they just didn't have any real quiet till they
20:36.3 laid down, and all of a sudden, pow, you've got all these thoughts of all this stuff going on in your mind, and it's like, how in the heck do you stop it? What do you do to transition to sleep? One of the most important things you can do for yourself, in any s- time of, of Mm ... during the day to process your anxiety. What's a real way to do that? Meditation, yoga, exercise, um, therapy, all kinds of ways to process your anxiety so you don't carry it to bed with you. And I have a really simple technique. You, you can use it in bed.
21:21.0 I'll try something later, and I really wanna share one of your techniques, Ed, because last night, the sleep ambassador was not being the sleep saint- Mm-hmm ... and I'm reading a novel far too late, and I had a lot of trouble falling asleep, and I used your technique. And I'll get to that in a little bit. But back to during the day and all the anxiety. So you're in a meeting, or you're in traffic, or you're in a line at the store, and you've gotta get somewhere, and you're running late. What do you... You're all over the place. Your mind is certainly not present. It's here, it's there.
21:52.8 And Ri- Richard O just wrote, "Taking your anxiety to bed." So I'm gonna give you a, a little technique during the day so you can just constantly center yourself, and you... It has to do with your breath. Your breath is like, it's happening. So if you can use your breath to your advantage, to calm yourself, to activate your parasympathetic, your calming nervous system, why wouldn't you? So here it's, it's so simple. It's like breathing 101. Ed, you can add, too, 'cause I'm sure you'd have more to say. Go ahead. You're great. I learned it- I love it. I learned this from Thich Nhat Hanh, who passed away last year.
22:31.3 He was an extraordinary, um, Vie- Vietnamese monk, and, uh, he was just incredible. Thich Nhat Hanh. And he used to talk about the space between the breath in and the breath out. There is, and I'm not saying, when I'm gonna have you do this, hold your breath. But be aware that there's a space between when you breathe in and you breathe out. Everything, this is Nancyism. When you breathe out, it's everything that was. When you breathe in, it's everything that will be. But the space in between is as now as you can get. It's your physiology. It's every part of you is in that space.
23:14.3 So when you find yourself getting tense or you find yourself rushing, just stop your bre- just stop for a second and be conscious, aware of that space between the breath in and the breath out. And right then and there, you are going to calm yourself. You're going to center yourself. You're going to be that wonderful word, present. And even if you do... You know, when e- just start to use it as a habit. You're breathing anyway, so you might as well start to become aware and start to notice, "Boy, when I do that, do I calm down a bit?" Like, even if you're angry about something or arguing with someone, just, while you're t- just stop for a second.
24:00.3 Be aware of that space. You'll center yourself. Your behavior will change. Your feelings will change. And it's just a beautiful thing. Now, I can embellish that, but that's as simple as you can get, and you can do it with your eyes open or closed anytime. I love that little gap that we get after the inhale is complete and the exhale is starting, and after the exhale is complete before an inhale starts, and that, that gap is there 20,000 times a day if, if you want to in- investigate it In growing that gap, that silence, the ability to shift gears so to speak, or turn the channel of your mind when you're watching a show in your mind
24:46.1 where somehow you become the villain or you sense that you're attacked. You know, that space grows very small when we mouth breathe. It's almost nonexistent at, at all because we're triggering adrenaline and cortisol in the top sleeve of the lungs. We're not getting the vertical push down of the thoracic diaphragm into the enteric nervous system calming the gut, and it's gonna trigger the, the amygdala into all sorts of thoughts, uh, that probably aren't going to be real, but you can make them real if you think that long enough. So looking into that gap, ladies and gentlemen, as Nancy mentioned, that gap happens naturally when we
25:26.5 raise our heart rate variability score. In other words, there's a space between the heartbeats that's a little longer than what was previously there. And you can't learn anything new. It's very difficult to learn new things when you're talking. So internally, making friends with silence. Learn to be alone without being lonely. This little roommate you have in your head- ... must be a healthy roommate, must clean up, take the trash out, make their bed, whatever. You need to have a healthy relationship with that voice in your head, 'cause that's the one true voice that's going to be there for the whole ride. And using little bits of breath retention, maybe you inhale and hold the breath in for a two count.
26:15.0 That's not gonna deprive the brain of oxygen. That's not gonna spike up a sympathetic action. It's just a brief little hold for a two count, and you can widen that gap of silence slightly. And believe me, ladies and gentlemen, the brain loves silence from time to time. It's heard it all. So when you can create little gaps between the end of the inhale and between the end of the exhale before you inhale again, you're gonna find amazing peace there like Thich Nhat Hanh was trying to bring to the masses. Yes. He, he used to actually say before he would answer the phone, for example, he would count to 10 and just focus on his breath during that time as a transition
27:03.1 to getting to some other activity. So I think that's it. And by the way everybody, you can do the same thing with the awareness on the space between the breath out and the breath back in. I'm just trying to simplify it because it's the first time you may have heard this idea, and I just try to keep it simple for people. But you know, Ed, you said something. So Ed was skiing this morning. I was swimming this morning. Um, yeah. Uh, whatever. And he texted me back and he said, um, he said, "When we would talk today, w- we need to smile more, love more, and sleep better." And I
27:39.5 was thinking to myself, just as a, just because this does get back to your breath, so, you know, when you smile- well, the tendency is you're going to be calmer and breathing more. When you're coming from your heart, you know, with a sense of love, yeah, you have boundaries for people who aren't nice or whatever, whatever. But these aren't things you're gonna read about often when you're talking about sleep, or even breathing for that matter. But I, in, in our world, especially right now, smiling, and how can you... Somebody said to me in a text back today, "How can anybody see the light in the world today?" Let me tell you, I've had experiences in my life that were not easy, and I will tell
28:23.0 you, if I didn't see the light in the darkness, I wouldn't be talking to you today. There's always light in the darkness, and you can always smile. I made myself a few week, uh, last month, I said, "I'm not smiling enough." And I stood in the mirror and 100 times, 'cause I use the fingers and the one, the two, the 20s, 30s, and I said, "I am happy. I am happy." Smiling 100 times, because I wanted to just start to feel the reality that what does it feel like to be smiling and to be happy? Mm-hmm. And, and as I did that, I know my heart was opening.
29:00.5 And I, I promise you, just the muscles, see if your muscles, how your muscles are when you're smiling. You know, are you smiling enough? You know, and if you, if you just go to, well, go to gratitude. If you have nothing to be happy about and you're really upset and life is crappy right now, be ha- grateful for your heartbeat and the fact that you're alive. Maybe you're not so happy you're alive, then, then seek ways you won't be alone. Seek someone to talk to so that you can get yourself to recognize that you're this precious being, that you have this gift- Mm-hmm ... of a heartbeat and a breath.
29:43.3 And the, and, and, and that is, it's such a miracle. And then the fact that we all go around kill- what goes on in between humans, it's just insanity. But breathe. Breathe your way to peace. Find peace in your breath. I mean, I don't mean to be flowery, but the way, the way we're functioning isn't working so great for a lot of people. Mm-hmm. And sleep deficiency, I just finished a white paper with the former head of the National Center for Sleep Disorders Research at the NIH, and we're looking at a national imperative for sleep. We're addressing sleep deficiency. Not so much sleep disorders, just general public sleep deficiency.
30:27.1 And we can talk about all the science and this and that, but what can, what can you do that's realistic for you so when you lay down at night, you can get the sleep that you were designed to get, and so when you get up in the morning, you're aware that you're breathing properly? I mean, and you said about nasal breathing versus... One of the most visceral things I ever heard was from Mark Abramson, who's a sleep dentist, and he has a, an FDA-approved oral appliance for sleep apnea. He's terrific, but he once said, "You should breathe through your mouth as often as you eat through your nose." Now, that's a little, but
31:07.0 that's what it tells you. Yeah, so we have to get back to the basics. Okay? We gotta go back to kindergarten, and we have to remember that there's ways that we can take care of our physiology that's gonna allow our psychological states allow deep sleep during the night. And I'm a firm believer that what happens at night is a reflection of what's happened previous, that everything in the body is happening like an echo. You throw a rock out into a lake, and there's an echo of that that takes place through our biology. Uh, obviously, uh, a lot of the thoughts that we hold during the day aren't loving.
31:44.8 Uh, they're self-defeating. Uh, we're extremely hard on ourselves, and when that doesn't work, then we're extremely hard on others who we might not even know. We get caught up in social media and these illusions of communication where we're defending the indefensible, when at the end of the day, you know, this clock is ticking, and all of us don't know how much time we have left. And I notice for myself that when I violate my boundaries during the day and I've drained my energy supplies, it's very, very difficult for me to get a good night's sleep when I'm energetically drained from my body. What do you do about that?
32:20.4 Well- When you know that that happened, what would you tell people? So I, I notice that I've kinda gotten into this monkey mind where I don't have the tether of my body to, to hold my thoughts congruent with what my intention is, and my mind will have a tendency to wander off what I'm trying to achieve in the moment. There's a couple things I do before I go to bed, is number one, I wanna re-pattern these two prefrontal cortexes. So I'll sit on the end of my bed. My feet are pressed down. I wanna feel the floor. I wanna feel my legs. I wanna feel my buttocks, some of the larger areas around the pelvic basin.
32:57.3 And I'll just take my right hand, and I'll take it across to the left, and I'll sweep it across my scalp, and my left hand will come to the right. And it's almost like I'm swimming like this funky backstroke. But as my hand goes across the top of my brain with a relaxed face, relaxed jaw, I begin to satiate the two prefrontal lobes. I activate the corpus callosum, and I begin to calm down. I open up these lymphatic drains in my armpit area, and I begin to unwind my day, and I'm s- giving supported visualizations that it's time to unwind, let go of the day, and come at the next day with fresh energy, fresh eyes, uh, fresh hands, a fresh heart.
33:41.8 And this slow, like the slower I go, the more I can actually feel the we go into the me- And the we go into the me in my brain, and then there's just one as I go to sleep. I'm not separate. And just kind of opening things up here and letting go of my day, kind of backing in to the evening, it brings the brain into flow. Mm-hmm. And it's a real simple technique of just breaking up any o- tension that might have been there by the day, and alert the brain that, hey, I'm in charge here. I'm the CEO of you, and now it's time to shut things down, and we'll attack again tomorrow at dawn.
34:21.2 So I, I... Can I add a few things to that? So- I would love to ... I am very big on sleep routines. Y- you know, we prepare for meetings, we prepare to ski, we prepare to go on a trip, we prepare to cook, but do you really prepare... Can you say you prepare to sleep? And most people can't. So you need to prepare to sleep, and that includes having a sleep routine. So when Ed said we wash away the day, one of the most beautiful things to do before you go to sleep, you wanna do it in the morning to take a shower, go for it.
34:53.8 But you should take a shower before bed for a number of reasons. One, who wants to get under th- under their sheets dirty? Like e- you know, you, a- a- you, you wanna take a shower at night, or a bath. It's very relaxing. Also, you're raising your body temperature, which is going to go down as you sleep. Mm. And it sets the state. But just think, here's another mindful, m- you know, oh, I can't meditate, it's too, my, my mind's too busy. When you're standing in the shower, first of all, it's such a luxury. Most of the world can't do that. And you're standing in the shower, close your eyes and feel the water on different parts of your body, and think about how wonderful it is.
35:36.5 And as you wash yourself, connect to your physiology, breathe slowly, and just really relish that time to wash away the day, good or bad. And then practice Ed's technique, slower and slower, so that you can transition to sleep. Then when you lay down in bed, I have a technique. Can I share it? I can't wait. And I, I realize that people are in a rush, they can't do this, don't wanna do that, so I thought, you know what? I'm gonna combine breathing and body awareness, and I'm gonna add a, a s- a, a nugget to it, a real golden nugget, and that's gratitude. Maya Angelou said, "Let gratitude be the pillow upon which you kneel to say your nightly prayers." And I've always gone
36:31.6 to gratitude myself when I get in bed. Well, not always, but certainly in the last number of years. Even on a tough day or whatever, I would always think, "What am I grateful for?" First thing that came to my mind. So here you are. If you're not driving right now and you can, I just want you to close your eyes for a second. And I want you to just take a few breaths in and out through your nose if you can. And I'm gonna get you out of your head, 'cause that's probably- The pro- one of the problems for many people falling asleep, and I want you to breathe down into your feet because the oxygen hopefully is going to every cell
37:11.9 in your body. And I want you to breathe into your feet, and you don't need to tense them up or anything, just be aware that they're there. And say to your feet, "I'm so grateful for all you did for me today, but you can rest now. You're done. You don't have to do any more. Just rest." And breathe up through your legs to your knees. You have a sore knee, spend a little extra time and a little love there. Give it added attention. Thank your legs for all they've done for you during the day. And then go, you know, you can go to any part of your body.
37:47.4 I'm trying to simplify it now. Go to your digestive system, your stomach, and hopefully you didn't just have a big meal because then your body's confused. Am I digesting or am I sleeping? Because they take very different enzymes and very different levels of heat and energy. But just go to your digestive tract and say, "Thank you so much for all you did, for all I put in you today. And I just, and I so appreciate your processing nutrients during the night." And then maybe most importantly, go to your heart. How often do you express gratitude to your heart? And say, "Heart, I'm not gonna be racing or skiing right now, so you can calm down.
38:27.5 But I, I'm so grateful that you're gonna beat through the night, keep me alive." And to your arms and your hands, what your fingers do all day, just start, just be aware and thank them. And then go up into your head. Go up into your mouth and thank it for speaking, for everything, and say, "You get to rest. You don't have to talk." And your nose and your ears, and maybe also most importantly, if you're fortunate enough to see, thank your eyes. Can you imagine what they have to discern and process and make, see what they see all day long? They're gonna close. And then maybe your sweet little brain.
39:09.9 If you're not asleep already, thank your brain and say, "You've got other work to do. You need to park yourself from all the thoughts and all, because you've got memory encoding, you've got your lymphatic system to clean out the brain. You've got a lot going on." So you can, if you were closing your eyes. O- make it your own. But you, it's a combination of body awareness, breathing, and gratitude. And it's really hard to be in a place of frustration and tension when you're in a state of gratitude. And I'll tell you, there's another dimension to y- every cell in your body, and boy, do they like to get appreciation.
39:51.1 Mm-hmm. And so it's just, it's calming. And I'm sure Ed could add different breathing things to do with this, but my, my goal is something simple that you don't need an app... Oh, you, by the way, that's one of my favorite things to say, Ed. You are the app. You are the ultimate app. You don't need an app to do Ed's breathing things, unless there's something you're listening to and learning from. But you're the app. Just, you need to just use you the way it was designed, to al- optimize your life. I'm telling you, people must not, I'm generalizing, but there apparently must not be any interest in improving the quality of our sleep, because what you just did there in the last five minutes works.
40:45.8 There's no doubt it works. It feels great. And just getting out of our head and in our body. Apparently there's, there is like a parasite in the mind that disavows the body. Every time we wanna do something for the body, "Oh, I'm too busy right now. I can't, I'm on the, I'm doing computer stuff," or on social media. The body is in charge, and Nancy just did that for five minutes. Everyone out there, I'm sure, if you're not ready to take a nap or go to sleep, obviously you're more relaxed and at home with your heart's wisdom. This is important, ladies and gentlemen. It is so doable.
41:35.3 And you know, you, you said it so eloquently, Ed. We, uh, there's a book, I, I can't re- it's Life Is a Game: These Are the Rules by Cherie Carter-Scott. Mm. I went to a workshop years ago, and the first rule is you are given a body. Mm-hmm. And without this, without a heartbeat, without breath, we're not here. And we go about our lives with these things, bodies, and we're putting in this and we're doing that and we're talking to him, we're running, and bla bla bla. And we don't stop and just stop, think of the miracle of what's going on inside us and how to honor
42:12.4 it. How to honor you. How to honor your, this gift we call life. Mm. And at times it doesn't feel like much of a gift, but it is. It's a precious, precious opportunity. And you just have to stop sometimes, and just stop and scan your body, scan your breathing, scan your... Just connect to yourself because if you don't do that, just life passes you by. And all of a sudden, you know, you think, "Oh my God, where did, where did those years go?" But if you're present in them, and you can be present through your breath. Your breath is, it's like, before I knew this, I mean, this is my 50th year of doing transcendental meditation.
43:05.6 Yeah. And I wasn't always regular, believe me. But I am, but I am now. And I've been doing yoga for almost 50 years. But I was doing it a lot. I wasn't always being it. I once, I once wrote an article, "Is yoga a workout or a work in?" Mm-hmm. It's a work in. It's connecting your mind and your body through your breath. That's really... It's not exercise. You can use it as exercise. But there's just these tools, and Ed gives on his YouTube channel, like, just incredible tools to help you do... And all the science he gives you. That's incredible, 'cause when you understand, you have a foundation for why you're doing this stuff.
43:46.4 But, but hey, you're in charge. Ed said it three times probably already. You're in charge of you. And I just, I'm out there proselytizing about sleep so that people can live well. I mean, you know, as I said, life is a 24/7 venture. You know, the part... There's a part of my mind that doesn't enjoy when I'm healthy. Hmm. So- It doesn't enjoy when I'm taking care of myself. Why? It likes living in that scatteredness, that s- that illusionary imagination world. And one way I can really irritate that part of my mind, which I don't know why it's there, it's an amazing teacher. Uh, it, it shows me s- to somewhat I ha- for me to get what I want in life, I have to go through these doors of what I don't want.
44:46.3 Yeah. And when I say to my breath and my mind to become one and breathe down into my feet, that is the furthest physical spot away from where I'm making decisions in my head. That journey of 5'10" electrical current going down into my feet, and almost instantaneously I begin to snap back and I say, "What do you mean I don't love being in my body? I don't love being down on my feet. I don't love being grounded in my legs." All... Uh, you remember it right away. It, it, it's just... And all new learning for adults really is remembering that you know stuff. Right. You're uncovering these ancient sands i- and caves of awareness that are stored inside our DNA.
45:37.4 It's just... That was so beautifully said. And you're right. Why do you think I start in your feet, everybody? It's to get you out of your head. And get in your body. Yes. And get... And yeah, yeah. It, it's just... It's, it is doable. It's a practice. It isn't you ha- you don't have to work at it. You just need to be it till you see it, as opposed to fake it till you make it. I st- or I like saying be it till you see it. And just experiment with what works for you. It's gotta be something that's helping you. And, and, and that's why Ed and I are suggesting in terms of anxiety and other kinds of issues-
46:17.7 is use your breath. It's just the most gorgeous way to calm yourself. And Ed, could you... I mean, I, so last night I stayed up too late reading my novel, which was just a problem, especially with the time change. I shouldn't be going to bed later, but I did. And then the sleep ambassador became a problem because I couldn't fall asleep, and I was not a happy camper. 'Cause I, I rare- I practice what I profess most of the time, and I rarely have trouble sleeping. Couldn't fall asleep, and so my mind was just everywhere. And so I was either focusing on the word love or peace, and then I did Ed's wonderful...
46:60.0 Usually I do it if I wake up and had trouble falling back asleep, once in a blue moon. But it's, it's alternate nostril breathing, but you breathe in through the left and out... Well, I start out through the right, in through the left, out through the- Yeah ... right slowly. Mm-hmm. In through the left. Uh, Ed says after five times you'll be in, back asleep. I don't know if that always happens, but it's out through the right, in through the left, activating your parasympathetic nervous system. There's a perfect example of something you can actually do without look... Oh, and please, if you wake up during the night, do not look at your phone.
47:37.6 You activate your brain, and it starts counting how many hours are left. If it's before 3:00, you're probably happy. If it's after 3:00, I'm gonna be a wreck tomorrow. Just, just put this thing away. It's brain stimulation. Forget the blue light even. It's just not good. But Ed's technique, did I say it right? Yeah, it's beautiful. I use it. I, it's so... Everybody, I'm gonna say it again. You wake up during the night or even having trouble falling asleep, take your middle finger and put it on your left no- nostril, close it. Breathe out through your right, cover it with your thumb, and in through your left.
48:19.5 Breathe out through your right and in through your left, and your physiology will be so happy. Mm. And focus when you're doing it so you can get away from what you have to do tomorrow and this and that and oh gosh, everybody, it's so possible to be peaceful and sleep. Why do you think we don't wanna slow down? Oh, that's such a cool question. I think we don't wanna slow down 'cause we don't wanna stop and think about what we really feel. Exactly. And why don't we wanna feel? Because there's scary stuff to process. It's really easy to keep running and not suddenly feel it.
49:06.1 And one of the things a dear friend of mine who's a master massage therapist, I've known her for 40 years, used to say to me, "Where are you feeling it in your body?" Like you're angry at somebody. Where do you feel it? Do you feel it in your left big thumb? Do you feel it in your stomach? Do you feel it in your heart? Do you feel it in your, in your, in your forehead? You've g- Because every thought has a physiological component. Mm. And so when you start to connect those feelings to your physiology, it's harder to run away from them so fast. Mm.
49:38.0 And, and, and I, I love what Ed said, in the space between inhale and exhale is where we see our truth and opportunity to, to feel. And I think that that, that's a place, but I think we run so fast, it's, it's part habit, it's cultural, it's acceptable, and it's just, it's scary to stop. It's scary to... The art of doing nothing, there is an art to doing nothing. And doing nothing is a lot of something. But I think that's really it. You say more. I'm talking too much. No, no, n- definitely not. I think f- you know, life is a sprint. It does go by in four or five breaths.
50:21.3 But at, at the end of the day, life essentially is an endurance event with little periods of mental, emotional, physical stress. Somehow it's turned around and it's, now it's become stress and there's, there's no endurance anymore, and we're in this hyperarousal state, which is very difficult to, to manage exactly how we want things to roll out in our life because we're somewhat rushed. So how can we bring as much parasympathetic activity as we possibly can to parts of our life that might be sympathetic or high arousal? Go to the s- And in other words, my inhale is sympathetic in its action. There'll be a slight spike of my heart rate, but I can inhale really slowly, and I can inhale just into my belly and not allow the air to rise up into
51:12.9 my ribs, and I can get enough oxygen and enough parasympathetic activity to increase my digestive fire, reduce inflammatory markers in my gut, and keep my blood alkaline. I can also add an extended parasympathetic activity to my exhale over time and build up CO2 tolerance so my amygdala doesn't fire off when the brain sees the higher level of CO2. In other words, you're exhaling as much air as you're inhaling. So when over time you can help the body handle higher levels of CO2 and make CO2 your friend. Yeah. You are... That is a cool down mechanism, this parasympathetic exhale. So if you wanna calm down, practice three or four times a day for a minute or two just
52:05.8 allowing the breath into the abdomen, and when it hits the ribs, hit the brakes. That, you're gonna get your lower lobes, you're gonna get the enteric nervous system of the gut, you're gonna get a relaxation response, a parasympathetic response to something that is normally sympathetic. And then ride the exhale longer than the inhale in length. So you're getting as much parasympathetic activity, stimulating the vagus nerve, keeping that parasympathetic brake on psychologically and physiologically, you're taking care of your heart, and then you can begin to be with these natural ultradian and circadian rhythms, and then sleep will be something like it was years ago. You know, I think I never thought of this before, but I think you just hit a metaphor.
52:51.3 When you slow down your exhale, you're giving. When you slow- Yeah ... down your exhale, you are giving. That's what exhaling is. And what was his name that you interviewed from, I think from the Netherlands, um, I was listening to his thing. Tim van der Leech. Yes, Tim van der Leech, and he talked about, you know, when you... You know, for him it was spiritual, not God, but it's like when you breathe in, you're taking. When you breathe out, you're giving. Right. Whether you look at it as being guided and guiding is a whole nother thing to this, and forget all that right now. But when you slow- There's a metaphor here.
53:32.4 When you slow down your exhale, you're giving longer. Mm-hmm. Breathe in, you're taking a little bit slow- a little slower, but a little bit less, and you're taking but you're giving more. And I can't- Yeah ... I never thought of it as a metaphor in terms of, you know, giving and receiving. But, but it's, it's... Do you know how lucky we are to receive the air, the oxygen? It might have been from... It, it's the same oxygen that's been around for eons. Right. Who knows where it was breathed? But you are alive and have this opportunity, the honor, the gift to, to breathe in. And then it's going in your physiology and you're going to give it out.
54:19.7 Give it out with love. I mean, don't think I'm all flower everybody, but seriously, if ever in our world, when you exhale, slow it down so that what you're doing is you're giving of yourself. You're sharing a piece of you that you process. And don't, what you wanna give is peace rather than anxiety and like... And by the way, we never hyperventilate. It's one thing if you're doing some kind of a yoga breathing thing. We never hyperventilate through our nose, by the way. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, that right there tells you something about why it's so important to, to breathe through the nose. That's how we're designed to breathe.
55:02.2 Well, so I think that that's a metaphor, um, when Richard O. said breath as a unifying act. What a beautiful way to put it. Yeah, I like that. That's just beautiful. It is a unification of... Because we're all part of the, we're all part of everything. We are not independent on our own. Yes, we're individual beings, but we are a collective. So when you breathe out, breathe out to the world with love, and breathe out slower than what you take in because- It's just you're giving back this gift that you ha- got, that you received. Does that make sense? Makes perfect sense. And the brain is, is great, but it's also a secondary organ in the sense that you can retrain your brain to exhale longer, changing
55:50.2 the respiratory glands in your brain. By consciously practicing exhaling longer over a period of weeks, subconsciously it will happen on its own because you've trained the brain to say, "Brain, I'd like to introduce this new breathing exercise. I know you're here to protect me, but I think when you see what this is offering, you're gonna like what it does." And wouldn't you call that neuroplasticity, in terms of- Yeah. You have to sell it to yourself. We're all in sales. And selling yourself that this exhale is the key to the next greatness, the next stair of your life to achieve, is difficult for people to wrap it around, but it's hiding in your exhale.
56:32.9 And when your exhale's coming through your mouth or it's short through the nose, you're limiting yourself energetically in regard to expanding your mental awareness to that curious state. Not only, you know, one door opens another one... One door closes, another one opens, and every time you exhale, you're opening yourself to possibilities. You're opening yourself to be a part of something bigger than you. Mm-hmm. And to, and to recognize that you are part of something bigger than you. Because where's that oxygen going that you breathe out? Mm-hmm. And, and then you're gonna take more to breathe in. By the way, it's, it's... I try, you know, if you're...
57:13.9 I, when I used to run, now I walk fast, but I used to try the, I started my breath cycle on the breath out- Mm-hmm ... on the exhale as opposed to the inhale. 'Cause you wanna take it, 'cause you're scared. I mean, I get a little, you know, oxygen hungry. But when I ro- when I reverse it, it changes everything. Like co- in my mind, my exhale starts the breath cycle as opposed to my inhale. Yeah, I think that's great. And you know, it, it's so amazing that most things happen in our life from the top down, but good sleep might occur from the bottom up.
57:49.4 Well, it certainly occurs on all kinds of levels. I mean, we surrender to slumber, and most of us have no clue what's happening during the night. Mm. And aside from the brain restoration and the physiological and enzymes and hormones and all the incredible memory encoding that's going on, we started out talking today about the spiritual journey that happens. It doesn't happen much when, as much when we're awake. Mm-hmm. 'Cause everything quiets down. There's some old... What do you think the prayer, I mean, it stems, it w- didn't start in Christianity, it started in Judaism, but, "Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul do keep." And the other
58:33.5 part, "If I should die," that came 80 years later, but what do you mean, my soul do keep? Where's your soul going during the night? Pretty big mystery, but it's really important you sleep well so you can balance your body, mind, and spirit. Well, I would offer to folks that you're actually most conscious in your life when you are unconscious, when you are sleeping. Because most of the time during the day when your eyes are open and you think you're conscious, 55% out of every second you're actually making unconscious choices. You're not fully present. Yeah. The habits, you have 60,000 thoughts every day. That's great.
59:17.7 Well, guess what? 99.9% of them are the same habitual thoughts you had yesterday. So in other words, you are unconscious when your eyes are open, and you are most conscious during your nocturnal sleep hours. And where do you think I'll sleep on it came from? I love it. I love it. What's next for Nancy? Oh my gosh, I have this book on the spirituality of sleep to actually write. I cannot wait to do the research. I can't wait to learn about going back millennium. You know, I can't invoke people who aren't here anymore, but I can certainly invoke s- things that we have in all kinds of literature and, and all kinds of philosophy and
60:03.0 everything else, and the s- science too, 'cause that's important. And to continue to do my work as a public advocate for sleep and consulting to companies like LinkedIn. I mean, here we are on, and with LinkedIn, and it's just such a, a joy to, to just be able- Right ... to help people sleep well to live well. And it's a joy- Mm ... to, to know you and to implement and utilize and learn about how I breathe from you. You've been instrumental into how I, how I look at my breath. In fact, I should say attribute to you and a couple other people, I can't give a lecture now anymore about sleep without including breathing.
60:46.3 I, it- Right ... I can't. So Nancy, you're part of the solution here rather than part of the problem, and sometimes news like this has a tendency to move rather slow. It's like a drip on a faucet, unlike bad news, which is, you know how that flows. How do people get ahold of you if they wanna find out more about the Sleep Ambassador and bring you into their life? That is so sweet of you to ask. Thesleepambassador.com, and on my, there's a lot of articles and information, and I've got a very curated resource list of organizations that provide info on sleep and breath. Breath, breath is now the first thing on my resource list, by the way.
61:30.2 And, um, also I have two courses. I have a course on LinkedIn Learning called Sleep Is Your Superpower. Yes. Over 300,000 people have engaged. Why? Because everybody wants to improve their sleep. And then I have a four-week- Sleep improvement program for sustainable sleep improvement based on CBT. It's very doable. No app. There is an app associated with it to screen your sleep, but past that, the Sleep Well Live Well program is completely not app-oriented. It gets you... Let's say it gets you intimate with your sleep so you can improve it. But I think also, aside from going to thesleepambassador.com, it's edharold.com, and sign up for one of his courses, and look at his other interviews, and look
62:16.2 at his YouTube videos about how to breathe. I mean, you're gonna breathe millions and millions and millions more times, hopefully, for the rest of your life. Just find out how to do it to make yourself feel great. Yeah. You know, I've really enjoyed being with you, Nancy. I appreciate your props in regard to my work. I, geez, it's, I'm just so amazed by the breath, and it just keeps revealing itself more and more to, to me every day, and I've been doing it professionally for 30 years. And it's really not so much what I've done, it's more or less what I'm going to do. Yeah.
62:55.6 And that's what keeps me excited, and that's what keeps me dialed in to people like you who are on the right side of trying to help humanity pull it together. And, you know, I really believe, like, the quality of our sleep creates our boundaries of how we move through the day. Right. And when we can have healthy boundaries during the day, we know that we can have a great night's sleep. Yep. And one big word that comes to me right now as you say all this, especially with everything going on in our word, world, is hope. And if you can just breathe out joy and peace and, and whether you pray or not, and just be peaceful.
63:36.2 Be a peace warrior. That's what we need, is more peace warriors in your life. And if you can learn to use your parasympathetic nervous system with, versus fight or flight, and the anger. And please, don't watch the news at night. I mean, it's important. You can watch the news. You can read it, but don't watch it before bed. You need your sleep. You're this physical being that needs good sleep, and you don't need... Your watching the news is not helping anybody when you go to sleep. You wanna go to sleep in peace so you can get up feeling peaceful. And the more of us at peace in this world, the better a place it can be.
64:12.9 There's power in numbers. Oh, yes. I'm in. You in? 100%. Let's do this. Let's make the world a better place before it's too late. Thanks for being with me, Nancy. You guys are, you're just awesome, man. I, I learned so much. I learned so much this last hour. Thanks for sharing your wisdom with myself and my amazing audience, and I look forward to working with you again really soon in the future. Talk soon, Ed. Thank you, love. Thank you so much. So blessed. You're the best. So are you. Bye-bye.